外国网友:中国有哪些西方没有的科技?

by 神秘人 at 2020-08-10

What are some things that exist in the Chinese tech ecosystem that don't exist in the west and vice versa?

中国的科技生态系统中存在着那些西方不存在的事物,反过来呢?

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美国知乎网帖翻译:

Ariel Kino Answered 7h ago Most of China's tech is built on western infrastructure. Its machines use languages and operating systems and its network web and IP communications use protocols developed in the West. Most apps use libraries developed internationally and businesses like Huawei compete internationally by offering the same types of services as Cisco AWS. Fundamentally tech is ubiquitous and all ecosystems are made of the same stuff.

中国的大部分技术都是建立在西方(技术)基础之上的。其机器使用的语言和操作系统以及它的网络服务和IP通信都是使用由西方开发的协议。大多数应用程序使用的是在国际上建立的数据库,比如华为这样的企业通过提供相同的服务与思科云服务公司在国际上进行竞争。从根本上说,科技是无处不在的,所有的生态系统都是由相同的东西构成的。

But China is weak on enterprise level software and doesn't have institutions like Oracle IBM or Cisco and will not let them enter the market (without giving up their source codes). Therefore it relies more on open source solutions. Its funding ecosystem is also based on the same financial principles adopted internationally - private and public sector investment in a nutshell.

但中国的企业级软件水平较弱,没有像甲骨文(Oracle)、IBM或思科(Cisco)这样的机构,也不会让他们进入(软件)市场(除非甲骨文或思科放弃他们的源代码)。因此它更依赖于开源解决方案。 其融资生态系统也是基于同样的国际金融原理——简单来讲就是私人和公共部门的投资。

R&D budgets are also comparative and set to overtake the US within the next decade (Science and technology in China - Wikipedia). but its trajectory follows the same path as the US (AI material sciences etc.). Many software developers would feel at home. However applications are different due to UI and microservice combinations which are customised for the Chinese market but will probably be copied by other countries soon.

此外,研发预算也可以进行比较,其将在未来十年内超越美国(中国的科学技术——维基百科)。但其轨迹与美国(人工智能材料科学等)相同。 许多软件开发人员会有身处其国内的感觉。 然而,由于为中国市场量身定制的UI和微服务组合的不同,其应用程序也是不同的,且可能很快就会被其他国家复制。

Are these differences significant enough to produce a new technology paradigm? Will China produce a different brand of singularity? It depends on whether you believe technology is a unifying force or can be bifurcated and whether China is capable of bifurcation. I personally don't think it will or can.

这些差异是否足以产生一种新的技术范例?中国是否会产生一种完全不同的奇点分支?

这取决于你相信科技是一种统一力还是可以产生分支的力量。而中国是否有能力(将其)分裂。我个人认为它不会,也不能。

Paul Denlinger Worked at Sina.com North America in 1998 1999 Been in China mostly since then. Have friends colleagues wo... Answered 19h ago This question needs to be rephrased somewhat differently it is not “what China has”; it is more about “what China does”.

这个问题要问的内容需要更改下,不应该问“中国有什么”;更应该问的是“中国干了什么”。

In terms of technology the Internet in China and the US have the same things. All have the same technology. The difference lies in “what China does”. In this what I am referring to is business model innovation. China’s Internet business models are fundamentally different from the US’s.

在科学技术层面, 中国和美国有着相同的互联网。我们拥有相同的技术,而差异则在于“中国干了什么”,在这里我指的是商业模式创新。中国的互联网商业模式和美国的存在根本性差别。

First of all let’s take a look at the BAT companies or the three leading companies which dominate the China Internet landscape: Baidu Alibaba and Tencent. Baidu is the leading Chinese-language search engine and is similar to Google in its product offerings and business models. Alibaba started out as a consulting service to small businesses in China helping them to get on the Internet. Out of this developed the Alibaba commerce platform and Tmall which is a storefront for businesses. Tencent is the most different it is an online community which started out by offering a real-time communications tool or chat.

首先,我们来看看BAT公司,或者说是主导中国互联网市场的三巨头:百度(Baidu)、阿里巴巴(Alibaba)和腾讯(Tencent)。百度是中国领先的中文搜索引擎,其产品供应和商业模式和谷歌很相似。阿里巴巴最开始是为中国的一些小型企业提供互联网方面的咨询服务。除此之外它还发展出了阿里巴巴电子商务平台和主要做店铺展示生意的天猫商城。腾讯是最与众不同的,它是一个线上社区,最开始时是以实时通讯以及聊天工具发展起来的。

Now think about this carefully and compare it with the Internet in Silicon Valley. Which successful US companies started out by offering real-time chat and then expanded? The answer is that there are none. In the US real-time chat was offered as a feature on MSN Yahoo and AOL (AOL is phasing out their AOL Instant Messenger service at the end of 2017) but it never became its own stand-alone product. No company in the US ever considered making real-time chat the basic tool for starting a company or offering it as its main product.

现在我们来仔细对比一下这些和硅谷互联网的不同之处。哪一家成功的美国公司最开始是靠着提供实时聊天的工具最后扩大发展起来了呢?答案是没有一家。在美国,实时聊天只是MSN,雅虎(Yahoo)和AOL(AOL在2017年底淘汰他们的美国在线即时通讯服务)的一个功能,但从未成为其独立产品。美国没有一家公司考虑过将实时聊天工具作为公司开始的基础,或是把它当做自己提供的主要产品。

How did Tencent become successful with real-time chat when chat could not stand on its own two legs in the US? In 2000 the Chinese government created a new state-owned enterprise to promote mobile communications called China Mobile. China Mobile had all the pipes but it did not have the content. It needed content partners to provide the content.

当即时通讯在美国已经没办法维持下去了,腾讯如何能靠实现即时聊天取得成功? 2000年,中国创建了一个以推动移动通信的新的国有企业——移动通信。中国移动拥有所有的渠道,但没有资源。它需要合作伙伴提供资源。

Starting in 2001 it launched a promotion plan called the Mobile Dream Internet which targeted the major Internet content providers which included Tencent. Basically the plan was to charge mobile users on a per-message basis with 85 percent of the revenue going to the content provider and China Mobile keeping only 15 percent. China Mobile would handle all the billing.

从2001年开始,推出了名为“移动互联网梦想”的推广计划,针对包括腾讯在内的主要互联网资源提供商。基本上该计划是按照消息的数量收取移动用户的费用,85%的收入归资源提供商,而中国移动只收取15%的收入。中国移动将负责处理所有的账单。

This plan ran from 2001 to 2005 at which point China Mobile changed to a 50/50 split with the service providers. Some of the content providers entirely left the field (Netease) while others went into gray area services (TOM).

该计划从2001年到2005年,中国移动与服务提供商之间的分成变成55分成。在此期间,一些资源提供商(网易)完全离开了这块领域,而其他资源提供商(TOM)则提供灰色区域服务。

Remember that this period coincides with the Internet crash of 2000 which badly affected all Internet companies around the world. The China Mobile Mobile Dream Internet plan was aimed at helping Chinese Internet companies which had recently gone public on Nasdaq the legs to survive the Internet winter and it was also aimed at promoting mobile phones and mobile phone communications years before Apple had revolutionized the mobile phone industry through the introduction of the iPhone in 2007.

请记住,这一时期恰逢2000年互联网崩溃,严重伤害了全球所有的互联网公司。中国移动的移动互联网梦想计划旨在帮助最近在纳斯达克上市的中国互联网公司在互联网行业寒冬中生存,同时也是为了在苹果于2007年通过推出iPhone彻底改变手机行业之前推动手机和手机通信发展。

Now if you look at this China experience from 2001 to 2005 and you are from Silicon Valley one thing should stand out for this period. China’s plan to rescue the China Internet companies and jump-start the mobile phone industry did not include advertising revenue.

如果你来自硅谷,现在由你来观察2001到2005年间的中国经验,那么你应该能看出这个时代的中国有一个突出特点。即中国计划挽救中国互联网企业,并不依赖广告收入的情况下启动了移动手机行业。

Compare this to the US where most Internet companies which offer free services such as Google Facebook and Instagram are heavily dependent on ad revenue to sustain their companies and set their company valuations.

相比之下在美国,大多数提供免费服务的互联网公司(如Google、Facebook和Instagram)都严重依赖广告收入来维持其公司经营,将广告作为公司估值的依据。

This brings us to an important point about the Chinese Internet and its business models which makes it fundamentally different from the US: The Chinese Internet has much more diversity when it comes to revenue sources and income than the US Internet which is still heavily dependent on advertising revenue and has been unable to break out of that dependence on advertising.

这使我们了解到中国互联网及其商业模式有一个异于美国的重要特征:中国互联网在收入来源和收入方面比美国互联网更具多样性,而美国互联网仍然严重依赖广告收入,且已经无法摆脱对广告的依赖。

Let us take a closer look at another very successful Tencent ecosystem WeChat. It now has more than 700 million active users and is the first app most Chinese open in the morning and the last one they check at night. It has created its own internal ecosystem where users can become content providers offering their product and services directly to other WeChat users. Unlike podcasts in the US they can offer their broadcasts to other WeChat users on a subscxtion basis with Tencent taking a small portion while the content creator takes the larger amount.

让我们仔细看看另一个非常成功的腾讯生态系统案例微信。现在它有超过7亿的活跃用户,是大多数中国人每天第一个打开和最后一个检查的软件。它创建了自己的内部生态系统,用户可以将其产品和服务直接提供给其他微信用户。与美国的播客不同,他们可以在腾讯的基础上向其他用户提供直播服务,腾讯只参与一小部分,而内容创作者则占大部分。

Multiply these numbers by China subscriber numbers and you can see why WeChat has created new Internet millionaires like Papi Jiang - Wikipedia who have become US$ millionaires based on their following in Chinese social media. Compare this to the US Internet where the people who become wealthy on the Internet are usually technical people and VCs. In simple terms if you have a special skill and can get a following in China you can grow because of social media and build your fortune based on the power of social media in China without depending on the state-owned Chinese official media or becoming a programmer or VC.

把这些数字同中国的订阅用户数量相乘,你就能明白为什么微信能创造出这些互联网百万富翁——像papi酱,凭借她在中国社交媒体的追随者们,维基百科显示她的财富已经以数百万美元计。相比之下在美国的互联网世界,往往是技术人员和在互联网上风投的人才能致富。简而言之,如果你拥有特殊技能并且能吸引粉丝的话,你在中国是更容易发展的。因为使你致富的社交媒体并不依赖于国有官方媒体,你也不需要成为技术人员或是风投才能赚大钱。

This would be very difficult to do in the US because of the stranglehold the advertising industry has on media. In the US it is almost impossible to grow without depending on advertising but in China it is very possible. In fact many Chinese content and entertainment expansion plans for China do not even include advertising revenue projections. This would be unthinkable in the US.

在美国,因为广告业对媒体的束缚,这是非常难做到的。不依赖广告而发展在美国几乎是不可能的,而在中国则非常有可能。事实上,许多中国资源和娱乐发展计划中甚至不包括广告收入。这在美国是不可想象的。

This brings us to another blind spot about the US: when Americans talk about innovation they usually refer to what Silicon Valley does best technology innovation. However China has done something which the US has been very weak at business model innovation. Unfortunately most Americans do not even know that this very different story has existed.

这给我们带来了另一个关于美国的盲点:当美国人谈论创新时,他们通常指的是硅谷最擅长的技术创新。尽管中国已经在美国所不擅长的商业模式创新方面取得成就。不幸的是,大多数美国人甚至不知道这个(与美国互联网发展)完全不同的故事已经存在。

For China and for the developing world business model innovation is more important than technology innovation. Flexibility in the field of business model innovation has explained why Chinese companies such as Xiaomi Alibaba and Tencent have been able to aggressively expand in markets such as India Africa and Southeast Asia.

对于中国和发展中国家来说,商业模式创新比技术创新更重要。商业模式创新领域的灵活性解释了为何小米、阿里巴巴和腾讯等中国公司能够在印度、非洲和东南亚等地积极开拓市场。

Business model innovation is firmly tied in with language culture and each nation’s own development model and experience. The reason many American Internet and technology companies have failed in China is not because the Chinese have copied their technology or because of Chinese government interference but because the Americans stuck too stubbornly with business models which worked in the US but would not work in China because conditions in China were different.

商业模式创新与语言文化和每个国家自身的发展模式和经验密不可分。很多美国互联网和科技公司在中国落败,不是因为中国人复制了他们的技术或者中国的干涉而是因为美国人过于执着在美国能成功运营下去的商业模式,这种商业模式在中国是行不通的,因为中国的情况与美国大不相同。

Tencent took real-time communications and adapted it to fit into China’s environment. (Technical changes were made to the program to make it work for the Chinese users of the time but I will not write about those here because it would make this answer too long.) Then Tencent completely changed the business model for it to make it work in China and to make the company profitable after only three years. And none of the company’s revenue in its first three years came from advertising.

腾讯进行了实时通讯,并将其与中国的环境相适应。(腾讯对这个项目进行了技术修改,使它能为当时的中国用户所用,但我不会在这里描述这些内容,因为它会让这个答案太长。)然后,腾讯完全改变了它的商业模式,让它能够在中国运作,且仅在三年之后就让公司盈利。没有哪家公司前三年的收入来自广告收入。

This would be unthinkable in the US.

这在美国是难以想象的。

If you have more interest in this subject I am writing a book about the Chinese Internet and Chinese business model innovation which will come out in the first half of 2018. Stay tuned.

我正在写一本关于中国互联网和中国商业模式创新的书,它将在2018年上半年发行。如果你对这个问题有更多的兴趣,请继续关注(我)。

John Morris Media Services Technician at Thales Group (2014-present) Answered 16h ago WeChat. I’ve spent some time in China and have observed the versatility of this app. It has no equivalent in the western world but it’s kind of like whatsapp PayPal a mobile wallet Facebook and Craigslist all rolled into one. You can even carry your ID on it so you don’t really have to leave the house with anything except your phone. I have been frustrated with Apple Pay lately because the near field connection is so finicky and half the time it doesn’t work when I’m trying to pay for something. In China you can attach credit cards and a cash balance to your WeChat and pay for things by scanning a QR code at the point of sale. This to me makes for a much better system as even a street merchant can slap a QR sticker on their cart with no need for expensive and complex NFC machines and unlike NFC it can’t be spoofed as easily. Looking for a job? You can check the WeChat message boards without having to worry as much about dealing with trolls and predators like you do on Craigslist which I grant is more of a cultural than a technical thing but I digress. Now I see Facebook messenger and whatsapp attempting to emulate some of WeChat’s features without success. I’ve heard rumors that some merchants in California are accepting WeChat pay now; I’d be interested to see if it’s true.

微信。 我在中国度过了一段时间,并观察到了这个软件的多功能性。在西方世界没有任何与此等同的东西,但它有点像是 whatsapp、 PayPal 、移动钱包、Facebook和Craigslist融合在一起的东西。你甚至可以只携带你的身份证,所以出门的时候除了手机之外其它什么也不必带。最近我对Apple Pay有点失望,因为连近距离连接都难以实现,而当我想买东西时,一半的时间它都用不了。在中国,您可以在WeChat上绑定你的信用卡和存储现金,并通过在销售点扫描二维码来支付费用。这对我来说是一个更好用的系统,即使一个街头商人可以将其二维码贴在他们的移动零售车上(以供人们扫码支付)而不需要使用昂贵和复杂的NFC机器,且它不像NFC那样容易欺骗他们。想找工作?您可以在WeChat留言板咨询,且不用担心自己像在Craigslist上那样碰到骗子,我保证微信让你感觉的更多的是一个文化(交流)而不是让我离题万里的技术性的东西。现在我看到Facebook、Messenger和whatsapp在试图模仿一些WeChat的功能却没有成功。有谣传说,加利福尼亚的一些商人现在正在接受微信支付服务;我有兴趣看看这是否是真的。