为什么朝鲜战争被称为“被遗忘的战争”

by 神秘人 at 2020-08-10

Why is the Korean War called the "forgotten war"

朝鲜战争相关讨论 正文翻译

Qi Chen, Electrical Engineer (2017-present) Originally Answered: Why has The Korean War become a forgotten war? Because US didn’t win it. The standard US media has the following rules on US’ war with other countries: The other country has to be somehow at fault. The other country must be a threat to good ol’ USA, but not so threatening that it can defeat USA. If US has to withdraw, it has to be due to “human cost being protected”. If US has to admit defeat, the opponent must have used underhanded tactics/sacrificed tons of lives/generally being evil. US must be able to claim victory at the end

因为我们没赢。 对于美国与其他国家的战争,标准的美国媒体有以下规则: 另一个国家一定在某种程度上有错。 另一个国家必须是对美国的威胁,但又不能威胁到足以打败美国。 如果美国不得不撤军,那一定是归于“保护人力成本”。 如果美国不得不承认失败,那么对手一定使用了卑鄙的战术/牺牲了大量的生命/基本上是邪恶的。 我们必须能够在最后宣布胜利。0 0 0 0 0 Qi Chen Okay, I should have stated it is one of the reasons. I think your argument about domestic impact has merit. However, I’d say it is manifested in a different form.

The Chinese Taoist has an expression called “大音希声,大象无形”。0 0 Compare Today's Unemployment with the Past While the Korean war times is certainly better than 1945~1950, where the economy is quite rough, the biggest thing on American’s mind is still jobs, employment, etc. Plus, comparing with the fully mobilization of WW2 or commitment for Marshall plan, Korean war’s domestic impact is, understandably, overshadowed. However, by itself it really isn’t sufficient for Korean to become a forgotten war. Korean War, a ‘Forgotten’ Conflict That Shaped the Modern World. The impact of Korean war cannot be overstated and frankly, it is opening act of cold war and set the tone for global conflicts over the next four decades. You’d think this kind of world changing event would have gotten more mention in both textbook and media, if only to make people aware of how the world is changing. But this is where my original post comes in.

虽然朝鲜战争时期肯定比经济相当艰难的1945~1950年要好,但美国人最关心的还是工作、就业等问题。 此外,与二战的全面动员或马歇尔计划相比,朝鲜战争对国内产生不利影响,这是可以理解的。 然而,仅凭朝鲜战争本身还不足以成为一场被遗忘的战争。 朝鲜战争,是一场塑造了现代世界的“被遗忘”的冲突。 朝鲜战争的影响不能被夸大,坦率地说,它开启了冷战,并为未来40年的全球冲突奠定了基调。你可能认为这种改变世界的事件会在教科书和媒体上得到更多的提及,哪怕只是为了让人们意识到世界是如何变化的。但这就是我最初的帖子的作用所在。0 Fundamentally, the media in US has two functions: Serves the interest of its owners Maintain a profitable operation You pointed out media will be trumpeting out failures of the administration, which fall under the first function. My post pointed out that not every failure will be trumpeted out, because some of them is in conflict with the 2nd, which Korean war falls down.

从根本上说,美国的媒体有两种功能: 符合其所有者的利益; 维持盈利经营。 你指出媒体将会大肆宣扬政府的失败,这属于第一个功能。我的帖子指出,并不是所有的失败都会被大肆宣扬,因为朝鲜战争中的某些失败与媒体的第二种功能相冲突。0 William Pickering Well, In the end it seems that you are a bit more cynical about the role of media than I am. Fair enough. Thanks for being relatively cordial, internet debates tend to get much messier.

好吧,最后看来你对媒体所扮演的角色比我更愤世嫉俗。很公平。 多亏了相对友好的态度,互联网上的讨论很容易趋向于偏激。 0 评论翻译 二 0 0 One million Koreans killed 800,000 (approx) Chinese killed And around 200,000 (approx) UN troops killed

100万朝鲜人丧生 大约80万中国人战死 大约20万联合国军士兵战死0 0 Harry Zitzelberger How can you call it a civil war when it was clearly orchestrated by the USSR and China? Literally, from the beginning, Kim Il Sung had support, equipment and assurances from those two communists states to seize the south. That is a war of external aggression, not a civil war.

明明是苏联和中国精心策划的,怎么能称之为内战呢?从一开始,金日成就得到了这两个国家的支持、装备和保证来占领韩国。这是一场外部侵略战争,而不是内战。0 Nathanael Striker "thanks to American intervention that Korea is separated" Korea was almost fully united under the UN (American) and South Korea banner before China stepped in to defend North Korea. While China was being defensive with that move, it can be argued that they get some of the blame too.

“多亏了美国的干预,朝鲜才分裂了。” 在中国介入保护朝鲜之前,朝鲜在联合国(美国)和韩国的旗帜下几乎完全统一。虽然中国的这一举动是防御性的,但可以说他们也受到了一些指责。0 Joe Ray Well, it wasn't. You can't always just have the Americans as 'the good guys' because in this they weren't. If the civil war had just been left, then Korea would've been United, as just before the American intervention, only a very small corner of South Korea wasn't under North control.

嗯,不是的。你不能总是把美国人当成“好人”,因为在这件事上他们不是。 如果任由朝鲜半岛内战自行发展,那么朝鲜半岛就会统一,因为在美国干预之前,韩国只有一个很小的角落没有被朝鲜控制。0 Harry Zitzelberge Hate to tell you but th Americans were the good guys in that one. Stalin, Mao and Kim had a concerted plot to "liberate" the south. There was no defensiveness about it on China's part, they pre-agreed to invade another sovereign nation with the intent of incorporating it into Kim's regime.

我不想告诉你,但美国人在这件事上是好人。斯大林、毛和金正日有一个共同的“解放”南方的阴谋。中国方面对此不存在什么防御性,他们预先就同意入侵另一个主权国家,意图将其纳入金正日政权。0 Harry Zitzelberger You call it a "Civil War", yet it was preplanned by Stalin and Mao. Outside aggressors are by they very definition, NOT a "Civil War". All the actions, from the PLA intervention to the Soviet Air Force involvement, to the equipping of the NKPA was planned before the North invaded. The US and the UN, on the other hand, took no aggressive steps until weeks after the invasion, yet you want to blame them? But for their involvement, the 50 million-ish South Koreans alive today would have spent the last six decades under the thumb of the two most brutal mass murders in history. If spending their blood and treasure to prevent that is not being the "good guys", have no idea what is.

你称之为“内战”,但这是斯大林和毛泽东预先策划的。他们就是外国侵略者,而不是“内战”。所有的行动,从解放军的干预到苏联空军的介入,再到人民军的装备,都是在北方入侵之前计划好的。另一方面,美国和联合国在入侵几周后才采取激进措施,但你想责怪他们吗?如果没有他们的参与,今天活着的5000万韩国人,在过去60年里,将经历历史上最残忍的两起大规模谋杀。如果流自己的血、耗费自己的金钱来阻止这些都不是“好人”,那就不知道什么才是好人了。0 Nathanael Striker I won't argue the fact North Korea almost conquered South Korea before UN (American) intervention. One could argue that the Domino Theory that America held onto throughout the Cold War led to their entry into the Korean War. Could we agree that it was a combined American/Chinese intervention, at different times and for different reasons, that led to a disunited Korea?

在联合国(美国)干预之前,朝鲜几乎征服了韩国。有人可能会说,美国在整个冷战期间坚持的多米诺骨牌理论导致他们卷入朝鲜战争。我们是否同意,是美中两国在不同时期、出于不同原因的联合干预导致了朝鲜的分裂?0 Joe Ray Oh yes of course China had a hand in it ... But not until after the UN were at their borders! But I still support the theory that the U.S. Is to blame. China couldn't be blamed because they didn't start the war.

哦,是的,中国当然参与了……但那是在直到联合国军抵达他们的边界之后!我仍然支持美国是罪魁祸首的说法。 不能怪中国,因为他们没有发动战争。0 Joe Ray There is never anything as simple as "the good guys". The reason I said it was Americans fault, was that is what I did for my exam. My thesis was on the Korean War and I concluded that America had a key part to play in causing this war. Mao and Stalin might of backed or planned a war, but that was the civil war in which Kim wanted to take South Korea, and did so briefly. This was the prelude to the war (this was the civil war). As I said in my answer, things could've of been left there. But no America, being so anti-communist waded in along with the rest of the UN and caused the Korean War 1950-1953. Before that, there was the Korean civil war (which you say was planned by Mao and Stalin and I'm not disagreeing with). The moment the UN joined in, it stopped being the civil war and became an international conflict. This main conflict was caused by America, therefore not making them the good guys. See what I mean?

没有什么比“好人”更简单的事情了。 我之所以说这是美国人的错,是因为我的考试就是这么做的。我的论文是关于朝鲜战争的,我的结论是美国在这场战争中扮演了关键的角色。 毛和斯大林可能会支持或计划一场战争,但那是金正日想要占领韩国的内战,而且他们涉入很短暂。这是战争的前奏(这是内战)。就像我在回答中说的,有些东西可能被留在那里。但是没有如此反共的美国,和其他联合国成员国一起参与进来导致了1950-1953年的朝鲜战争。 在那之前,还有朝鲜内战(你说那是毛和斯大林策划的,我不反对)。在联合国加入的那一刻,就不再是内战,变成了一场国际冲突。这场主要的冲突是由美国引起的,因此他们并非是什么好人。 明白我的意思了吗?0 Harry Zitzelberger How was it not already an international conflict? The USSR and China made it an international conflict before the first NKPA tank crossed the 38th parallel.

怎么就不是国际冲突了?在第一辆人民军坦克穿越三八线之前,苏联和中国将其变成了一场国际冲突。0 Joe Ray Because China and the USSR were not directly involved in fighting. Before this the fighting was done by the north and South Koreans only. That makes it a war between the same country, therefore a civil war. After America had got involved, over a million more people were killed. I count the good guy as someone who doesn't get a million people killed.

因为中国和苏联没有直接参与战斗。 在此之前,这场战斗只由朝鲜人和韩国人进行。这使它成为同一个国家之间的战争,因此是一场内战。 美国介入后,又有100多万人丧生。 我认为好人是不会杀死一百万人的。0 Maggie Crooks You might make a note that the Korean War (or conflict, which is what it was called) is still not over. It never came to a conclusion.

你可能会注意到朝鲜战争(或所谓的冲突)还没有结束。下定论为时尚早。